tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post4838965772611316445..comments2023-04-24T23:09:57.655-04:00Comments on All Things Education: My Year-End Post: No Matter the Reforms, No One Likes TyrannyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-58667799834478947002012-01-05T12:27:46.242-05:002012-01-05T12:27:46.242-05:00"getting rid of those not-so-competent, not-s..."getting rid of those not-so-competent, not-so-committed colleagues who make my job more difficult."<br /><br />I would guess that a significant portion of the opposition to accountability comes from: <br /><br />1) People who legitimately fall into the category you just named; <br /><br />2) People who don't fall into the category you just named, but who (perhaps rightfully) fear that inaccurate testing measures, bad evaluation systems, and even capricious administrators, would classify them as incompetent. <br /><br />Either way, though, self-interest does come into the mix. That's not a bad thing, especially as to number 2 above, but it also does help explain why you wouldn't find large numbers of teachers blogging/tweeting about how much they love accountability.Stuart Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05731724396708879386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-27343372372310729082012-01-04T22:49:42.126-05:002012-01-04T22:49:42.126-05:00I completely agree with Rachel. I would also add t...I completely agree with Rachel. I would also add that increasing the degree of meaningful accountability in teaching would make my job significantly easier by both helping me and my competent, committed colleagues improve and by getting rid of those not-so-competent, not-so-committed colleagues who make my job more difficult.james boutinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09625944306253098621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-27714446688113237862012-01-04T09:55:20.730-05:002012-01-04T09:55:20.730-05:00@Stuart - If professionals don't like having t...@Stuart - If professionals don't like having their work evaluated because the process is a waste of time, that doesn't necessarily indicate they don't like being held accountable for their work, it means they want the process to be fair and useful. <br /><br />As for nervousness, I think that's normal in any evaluation, no matter the stakes (I get nervous when I go to the dentist that he's going to tell me I have new cavities or that I'm not taking care of my teeth well enough). Though I must concede that a certain number of people will reject the process just because it makes them nervous--people certainly avoid going to the doctor for those reasons--which isn't productive or particularly competent.<br /><br />But lots of teachers would like to be observed more if it means they'll get useful feedback. I talked with the principal at my kids' neighborhood public school about teacher evaluation. She said she and teachers talk together before the observations to identify what the teacher considers to be weaknesses or problems so that the principal can watch specifically for those and then provide targeted feedback. She said, in fact, that that was how principals in our district are trained to do evaluations. That shows a willingness on the part of teachers to be vulnerable but also that they trust that the principal is there to help them improve their practice and not just to decide to fire or demote them. And I think that's one reason why teachers are generally happy here despite lower than average salaries. When I went from DCPS to Albemarle County PS in Virginia, the evaluation processes were like night and day. Instead of answering to a pre-determined checklist about standardized test scores and what was up on my classroom walls, I had honest but pleasant and useful conversations mostly about my practice.<br /><br />Of course if teachers aren't willing to be evaluated, accept that they can always improve their practice, or to take steps to improve, they shouldn't be in the classroom, but there also has to be that trust there. If the evaluation process is hostile, punitive, useless, or unfair (not based on actual practice and curriculum), then of course, professionals aren't going to want to be evaluated.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-35014495506930193022012-01-04T09:28:46.358-05:002012-01-04T09:28:46.358-05:00"Why wouldn't competent professionals wan..."Why wouldn't competent professionals want to be held accountable for their work? It's an opportunity to receive praise and improve. Don't people want those things?"<br /><br />Well, no, not really. Ask people in the business or legal worlds how much they like having yearly performance reviews -- they either think it's a joke or they're nervous about it. Either way, people are generally not eager to tell their boss, "Hey, can you look over my shoulder more often, correct me, and potentially demote or fire me if I'm not doing the right thing?"Stuart Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05731724396708879386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-25294251987909539532012-01-03T17:40:01.500-05:002012-01-03T17:40:01.500-05:00Pasi Sahlberg (of Finnish fame) says accountabilit...Pasi Sahlberg (of Finnish fame) says accountability is what's left once responsibility is subtracted.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-3666299353612151352012-01-03T16:51:56.428-05:002012-01-03T16:51:56.428-05:00Hi Stuart,
I think that because I think there are...Hi Stuart,<br /><br />I think that because I think there are more than a handful of teachers who not only would accept accountability, but have been begging for more accountability for years. Those are the teachers who are confident about their skill and know they're making an impact on students. Why wouldn't competent professionals want to be held accountable for their work? It's an opportunity to receive praise and improve. Don't people want those things?<br /><br />But don't confuse my use of the word accountability for some other people's. The way accountability is being envisioned in many school systems across the country would not be something I would accept. A given system of "accountability" is worthwhile only if it accurately measures meaningful indicators a professional can rightfully be held responsible for. I don't believe in being held accountable for factors I have no control over. Hold me accountable for things I control, give me rewards for my good work in those areas, and you elevate the status of my profession - I'd be happy with that. I've been advocating for that since I began teaching, when I felt I was doing a better job as a new guy than the thirty-year-old veteran next door. The majority of teachers I've worked with are similar. Try checking out the link below: <br /><br />http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/teaching_ahead/<br /><br />It seems to me that for you to believe that teachers don't want accountability, you must either believe that the vast majority of teachers secretly know that they're not very good at their job OR you think that human nature tells it to avoid responsibility. I don't think I'd agree with either take.james boutinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09625944306253098621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-66049965709349345932012-01-03T08:44:45.504-05:002012-01-03T08:44:45.504-05:00James --
You say, "But if the majority of t...James -- <br /><br />You say, "But if the majority of teachers were mostly out to protect their pocketbooks, then I think there would be at least as equally large a number of teachers voicing their adamant favor for "accountability" - and I haven't seen that happening."<br /><br /><br />I'm not sure why that follows. If teachers were thinking of their pocketbooks, there would be equally as many teachers in favor of accountability? Why would that be? Isn't it more likely that most teachers (whether or not they would admit this) fear that under any accountability system whatsoever, they bear more personal risk of failing to meet the criterion? And isn't it more likely that only a handful of teachers would see a high enough possibility of rewards from an accountability system that they'd favor it based on that reason?Stuart Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05731724396708879386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-12793005424321420962012-01-03T08:40:14.146-05:002012-01-03T08:40:14.146-05:00@Brad - Thanks for reading & commenting!
I mu...@Brad - Thanks for reading & commenting!<br /><br />I must credit Russo with the "reformy" term--I'm pretty sure it came from him.<br /><br />Otherwise, you're really onto something. Top-down, mandated micro-managing is a failing strategy. And so are cutbacks. You're right, without adequate resources (and without raising revenues) public institutions and services are doomed.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-13378263189528483192012-01-03T00:32:45.932-05:002012-01-03T00:32:45.932-05:00Rachel,
Great initial piece and thoughtful followu...Rachel,<br />Great initial piece and thoughtful followups. I appreciate your efforts to be fair to all the responders. I especially like the designation "reformy" for the corporate/charter/high stakes testing/anti-teachers union crowd. <br /><br />Here is my take as a 28-year English teacher in Los Angeles. First, all objective observers recognize that public education has many faults. In urban districts like my own, teachers and our unions for too long tolerated mediocre results, saying that it was a management issue. Too many top-down mandates only exacerbated the problems we faced in the classroom. Kozol and Postman wrote eloquently about much of this.<br /><br />Then we had the outsiders, many from business, who thought they could tell us what to do. Well-meaning, perhaps, but still wrong-headed and not dealing with the real problems that teachers and students faced.<br /><br />Then we got NCLB and Race to the Top. More testing and labeling schools and teachers as failures. Money tied to grant-writing, as if saying that up is down makes it so.<br /><br />For the last several years, we have faced the most dramatic cutbacks in education (and all social services) in all the years I have been teaching. At least in Los Angeles, our classes are larger than ever, we have fewer support services, including nurses and librarians, and we have seen thousands of mostly young teachers laid off.<br /><br />Unless society renews and extends its fundamental obligation to the common good of our children (and all people), all the talk, all the plans, all the testing and "accountability," all the "reforminess" (well-meaning or not), will mean nothing.<br /><br />Every school must be a great school, and provided with the resources to make that possible. Otherwise I fear for the future of our democratic society. This crisis clearly transcends party, and the outcome will reveal our soul as a people.Brad in SoCalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-20031817331579074062012-01-02T19:37:19.352-05:002012-01-02T19:37:19.352-05:00@James - yes, they are linked and what you had to ...@James - yes, they are linked and what you had to say related to the post in general if not directly to Stuart's comments.<br /><br />In the meantime, I have three links that are relevant:<br /><br />First, I need to repost the link to Roxanna Elden's post on teachers & technology because my coding didn't take. Here <a href="http://www.schoolleadership20.com/profiles/blogs/the-relationship-status-of-teachers-and-educational-technology-it?xg_source=activity" rel="nofollow">it is</a>.<br />Next, Robin Rogers, who mentioned earlier (she's an academic who studies philanthrocapitalism & public policy) just published this <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-hidden-costs-of-million-dollar-donations/2011/12/20/gIQAzpC1QP_story.html" rel="nofollow">piece</a> in the Washington Post.<br />Finally, speaking of choice, Chad Sansing, a charter school teacher who I mentioned in the post just wrote this <a href="http://virginiaedreport.org/lounge/2012/01/how-to-save-virginia-schools/" rel="nofollow"> important piece</a> about charter school expansion in Virginia. He does a great job explaining (I think) what kind of charter schools many educators would be in favor of versus those they are largely not in favor of.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-25257860845965480302012-01-02T19:10:53.500-05:002012-01-02T19:10:53.500-05:00Good point, Rachel. Stuart's point was mostly ...Good point, Rachel. Stuart's point was mostly about choice - and here I am going off on my own little tangent about accountability. <br /><br />Obviously the two are linked, though. <br /><br />In the same way that lots of excellent teachers would be on this corporate reform bandwagon if its talking points matched the realities it's creating, I think the same could be said about charters. If charters were regulated appropriately so that one could be confident that they were all really about providing different excellent options to parents, then, again, I think you'd see more public education employees advocating for them online and, of course, everywhere else.james boutinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09625944306253098621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-67830723961735306652012-01-02T15:05:53.965-05:002012-01-02T15:05:53.965-05:00@James (2nd comment) - Great, great comment. Thank...@James (2nd comment) - Great, great comment. Thanks for taking the time to post it. Though I think Stuart is talking pretty much specifically about opposition to charters/vouchers. And I'll piggy back from something you said to respond to his most recent comment.<br /><br />@Stuart - I totally see what you're saying. But to agree that that's strictly what happens, you have to see the world through a certain lens. It's not that what you're saying isn't logical, it's that I don't necessarily subscribe to that brand of logic, that people act so heavily based on market instincts or that they're so motivated by market considerations.<br /><br />That being said, I'd be really curious to hear from some behavioral economists on this or from some cognitive/social psychologists who study decision-making. I'd also be really curious to know if there have been surveys of Catholic educators. How actively do they lobby for vouchers, for example?Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-19277949740700339882012-01-02T13:58:30.273-05:002012-01-02T13:58:30.273-05:00@James - (to you first comment) Yes. Yes. Yes. And...@James - (to you first comment) Yes. Yes. Yes. And thank you and you're welcome.<br /><br />I especially like what you said about pedagogy/craft. And not to beat my other drum too loudly, but I would add curriculum. Those two things should be the focal parts of conversation around education and education reform. (And when I say craft, I am including whole child approaches.)<br /><br />@Anon 8:55 I don't think that teachers necessarily beat up on education entrepreneurs. Teachers, like any other group of Americans, probably like gadgets and technology and products that will make their jobs easier. Of course, there are the extremes in the profession of the techno-phobic and the techno-maniac. I think what teachers don't like is having technology and ed tech products forced on them when they can't really use them, especially when they see gobs of money being spent on some of that stuff while there aren't basics and while essential faculty and staff are cut. You might like this post <a href="post" rel="nofollow">http://www.schoolleadership20.com/profiles/blogs/the-relationship-status-of-teachers-and-educational-technology-it?xg_source=activity</a> by Roxanna Elden on teachers & technology--it's excellent. <br /><br />I can't speak to your implication that there is resentment towards ed entrepreneurs due to income disparities b/c I've haven't really heard that particular thread of thought beyond middle class folks being outraged by growing income disparity in general.<br /><br />And lots of teachers are educators are peeved about the textbook industry. There have been some really cool efforts for districts, schools, and teachers to work together to create their own textbooks (in some cases using chapters, material from textbook vendors). I like that idea a lot, and I bet some good software could make it much easier to happen.<br /><br />The problem with Gates as I see it is not just that he is providing money for experiments. Universities, the government, and private industry do that all of the time, and they should. It's that his money is replacing public money (revenues) but being used for public outcomes. And they're not just little experiments; they're grand-scale experiments. So in many cases (though not all), it's do what Gates says, how Gates says to do it (whether it's a good idea or not) and do it on lots of kids, or else no money. I think this is a problem no matter who the philanthropist is. Some say, well, Gates is okay or Soris is okay because they're doing what I agree with but Koch brothers are bad. Okay, I tend to agree more politically with Soros but I think this is a huge problem in general and across the board not just with philanthropists I don't agree with and not just in education. Read someone named Robin Rogers on this.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-65070956900339135902012-01-02T13:34:27.638-05:002012-01-02T13:34:27.638-05:00In response to Stuart's explanation about teac...In response to Stuart's explanation about teachers fighting to preserve their own interest:<br /><br />Yea - this is one possible explanation, and definitely true for some teachers. But if the majority of teachers were mostly out to protect their pocketbooks, then I think there would be at least as equally large a number of teachers voicing their adamant favor for "accountability" - and I haven't seen that happening. As Rachel noted, I used to write strongly in favor of corporate reform. I moved to Washington, DC to work for Michelle Rhee because I wanted to be valued for my good work. I'm smart, capable, and energetic. Shouldn't I be excited about "accountability?" about the monetary rewards that should rightly follow our most capable teachers? I should be rejoicing RTTT and Arne Duncan and Michelle Rhee from the roof tops. But I'm doing just the opposite.<br /><br />That teachers are out to save their pocketbooks might be an explanation. But it is nothing more than an a priori assumption unless you listen carefully to their arguments, look carefully at what's happening in schools, and reflect deeply on whether those things are good or bad for kids. I've done these things for the past four years. I moved to DC and to the Bronx to both teach and investigate how Michelle Rhee and Michael Bloomberg's version of reform were actually playing out on the ground. And I can say, with experience, that for a lot of schools and a lot of students, these policies are doing far more harm than good.<br /><br />Considering that about half of all teachers leave the profession in the first five years anyway (even more in inner-city schools) might give one pause in espousing Stuart's explanation. The only teachers I've noticed who rightfully fall into Stuart's assumption are the bad ones with thirty years of experience. And while they exist, they are a small minority. Furthermore, the power they have comes in the form of unions, not online grassroots activism. The people I read online (the one's Russo's asking about) are mostly highly intelligent and often young people concerned about the detrimental effects of allowing market ideology dominate any and all policy decisions without consideration of context and free-market faults.james boutinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09625944306253098621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-73455741319841001522012-01-02T13:06:32.214-05:002012-01-02T13:06:32.214-05:00It seems to me that Russo must know exactly why cr...It seems to me that Russo must know exactly why criticism of corporate reform is so heavy online. He's not a dumb guy. So what was his purpose?<br /><br />My favorite line from this post: "Furthermore, the ed reform products...being proposed are not ones that come from ideas about education or teaching and learning, but rather from ideas about business and finance." <br /><br />Indeed. I think part of the reason for this is that many people don't really think there's a lot to be said for excellent pedagogy. Teaching seems to be viewed as a relatively ordinary job (not a profession for which rigorous standards should be applied). Good teachers are those who are somewhat smart and try hard, and bad teachers are lazy and don't. We don't seem to have much of an appreciation for/understanding of the skill (not talent) involved in a veteran's craft.<br /><br />One other thing raised here that has struck me constantly is the masses of frustrated people working in or near public education. I have never been to a conference with fellow teachers, administrators, coaches, teacher teachers, etc. where 90% didn't have lots of complaining to do about untested reforms and federal mandates hurting schools. There is a vast, vast, vast network of people who work around public education in this country who see clearly how harmful things like NCLB and RTTT have been - and it's so much more than JUST teacher and administrator unions. It's education colleges, standardized test makers, councils for school accreditation (SACS, NCATE), professional organizations (NCSS, NCTE), PTSAs, etc. I feel like I can hardly run into a public educator without lamenting the absurd approach to education reform being taken.<br /><br />The problem is that these are the people who spend so much time working on and with public education that they generally don't have the time and energy at the end of the day to push for their preferred reforms. (In a very real way, they are too exhausted to fight aggressively against corporate reform.) When you see that, I think it makes it all the more clear exactly how arrogant the corporate reformers are - and their followers (of whom, you note, I used to be one) tend to be equally arrogant, often young and naive (as I used to be).<br /><br />Thanks for posting on this with nuance, for being thinker.james boutinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09625944306253098621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-35402207331012325182012-01-02T08:33:47.627-05:002012-01-02T08:33:47.627-05:00@Anonynous 8:55 - Good questions/ thoughts. @Stua...@Anonynous 8:55 - Good questions/ thoughts. @Stuart - I see what you're saying. . . <br /><br />Listen, I will be off-line for a while today but wanted to let you both know I will respond more substantially later.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-39107720599272894162012-01-01T22:18:27.167-05:002012-01-01T22:18:27.167-05:00How about this: what if someone said, "Where ...How about this: what if someone said, "Where are all the Catholic schoolteachers blogging against vouchers?" A quite natural response would be, "Are you kidding? Why would you expect there to be so many Catholic schoolteachers blogging against something that might be the difference between them having a job vs. not having a job?" <br /><br />To be sure, there are good reasons that a Catholic schoolteacher might oppose vouchers, just as there are good reasons that a public schoolteacher might support them, but it's not exactly what you would expect to see in droves.Stuart Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05731724396708879386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-25582884401094339232012-01-01T20:55:57.840-05:002012-01-01T20:55:57.840-05:00Here's the question that I have long had aroun...Here's the question that I have long had around this kind of debate: <br /><br />Why do teachers beat up on entrepreneurs trying to build educational technology products? <br /><br />1. Textbook makers have long made much higher profit margins than most of the entrepreneurs. Even if the entrepreneurs are successful (and most will fail), they're unlikely to EVER get the kinds of profit margins of Pearson, McGraw-Hill etc. <br /><br />2. Most of the entrepreneurs are candidly making LESS money than teachers (and entrepreneurs certainly have less job security). <br /><br />I'm on the periphery of this industry but it seems like Bill Gates is providing money for a lot of different experients. Why are experiments bad? Isn't this supposed to be an industry about learning? <br /><br />Thanks for your insights on these questions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-86446754194225578842012-01-01T16:05:23.053-05:002012-01-01T16:05:23.053-05:00@Stuart (now responding to 2nd comment) - What you...@Stuart (now responding to 2nd comment) - What you're saying here really resonates with me. I guess I don't see why we can't do that within public school systems, with magnets and yes, charters. I'd like to see more choice under one umbrella with more collaboration between the various schools and administrators to find the best fit for each student. That would mean less red tape and top-down orders and high-stakes-testing-based accountability for EVERYONE. That would mean central administrations would need to give individual schools and principals and also teachers more autonomy. Also central administrations need to start being more accommodating and less hostile to communities and groups of parents and educators who want to try something a little different. In some cases, traditional school systems are behaving as their own worst enemy and driving these people away--people who would philosophically prefer to stay within the district, but who get no support from it.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-67520947359499507622012-01-01T15:49:14.830-05:002012-01-01T15:49:14.830-05:00@Stuart - Thanks for the clarification. No, I wasn...@Stuart - Thanks for the clarification. No, I wasn't being sarcastic, just not very articulate. And thanks for clarifying your main point.<br /><br />"most people are not going to go out of their way to make public arguments for a position that could potentially hit their own pocketbooks." <br /><br />Okay, I haven't studied decision-making at this level myself (and I'd love to hear from someone who has), but for now I can accept that the above statement is probably true.<br /><br />But, and this rather goes back to my main point in the post and as it was discussed by Ken and Mark above, which is that I think we're assuming different things about "reform" when we talk about teachers "being in favor of reform." I'm saying that Russo is right--many teachers are in favor of reform (and I've listed some of that I follow) but not necessarily the particular set of reforms being pushed by the high-profile reformers, or not all of them, or not as they're being executed or legislated. The reforms that many educators are in favor of have much more to do with practice and curriculum than with "things that could potentially hit their own pocketbooks." <br /><br />Now since you're specifically addressing vouchers and charters, I'm not sure that any opposition to them is due directly to pocketbook-hitting issues (for lack of a better term), but rather due to how they're being executed (and also at some point we have to separate charters & vouchers, at least vouchers for religiously-affiliated institutions due to 1st amendment concerns) as well as concerns about creating a system that is Darwinistic. <br /><br />I don't know. I have to think about what you're saying more. For now, it just seems like I am assuming that money motivations in the matter of reservations about charters/vouchers are a much smaller slice of this than you are assuming. Also, I think that your and my assumptions about human behavior and how competition affects it are very different.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-58068315449933163622012-01-01T15:25:33.148-05:002012-01-01T15:25:33.148-05:00As for where I'm coming from, I support school...As for where I'm coming from, I support school choice -- I'd like to see as much school choice as they have in most European countries -- because of the notion of letting a thousand flowers bloom. <br /><br />In my view, it is simply impossible for one school to be the perfect school for every kid. Kids are too varied and idiosyncratic. Some kids thrive in a large school where they have lots of opportunities to join clubs, etc., while other kids get lost in the crowd. Some kids thrive with a particular type of curriculum or pedagogy, while others need something different. Some kids are OK with a particular type of peer culture, while others are more geeky and would be less vulnerable in another setting. Some kids want lots of sports, others don't. I mean, I could keep going for a hundred different character qualities or interests that kids have. <br /><br />Given that no one school can be the perfect school for every kid, why should school choice be limited to only those middle- and upper-class people who can afford to pick their housing with particular schools in mind, and who can afford private schooling if that turns out to be a better fit? Poor people on Medicaid still have the right to pick their own doctor, people who get Pell Grants have the right to pick a university, and people who get food stamps have a right to pick where they buy food. It doesn't seem fair that people who can't afford to move to a different zone should be basically banned from attending anything but their legally-mandated school.Stuart Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05731724396708879386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-26820418376305549462012-01-01T15:01:25.304-05:002012-01-01T15:01:25.304-05:00I must have misread you, then. When I saw the foll...I must have misread you, then. When I saw the following sentence -- "Of course, since these reformers sincerely believe their agenda will improve education, it's probably of no consequence to them and presents no conflict of interest that the industry they've created would have the added bonus of benefiting them in the form of financial rewards and jobs" -- I took it as being sarcastic, and as insinuating that some number of organizations (plural) are only out for financial rewards and jobs. <br /><br />Anyway, that wasn't my main point. My main point was to offer an answer to Russo's inquiry, as to why there aren't more teacher-blogger-types in favor of reform. My answer is that at least as to charters and vouchers, it's no surprise at all. I don't think it's cynical -- but merely realistic -- to point out that most of the time, most people are not going to go out of their way to make public arguments for a position that could potentially hit their own pocketbooks. That's not saying that money is their only motivation by any means, but other motivations would have to be pretty strong to overcome all of the personal interests at stake. <br /><br />Similarly, think of all the rich people who might argue that lower taxes means that they'll be better able to invest more money creating jobs, etc. They can be perfectly sincere in that belief; they might even be objectively correct in that belief; even so, it's not too cynical to point out that it isn't exactly surprising that they're making THAT argument, rather than incessantly writing blog comments and tweets in favor of taxing themselves more. It's national news when Warren Buffett argues in favor of higher taxes on the rich.Stuart Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05731724396708879386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-2353559238326599112012-01-01T08:04:49.257-05:002012-01-01T08:04:49.257-05:00@bubbler - What a great comment.
I agree so much...@bubbler - What a great comment. <br /><br />I agree so much with you that a lot of misunderstanding occurs when people on the policy side are indifferent to, ignore, don't realize, or don't take into account what happens on the ground. That is one of the on-going themes of this blog.<br /><br />You also nailed it on practice. Teachers may disagree on a lot but discussions of practice (and curriculum, I'd argue) should form the meat of discussions about ed reform and advancing teaching and learning. Yes, it's grounding, interesting, and of ultimate importance. And I think that was largely what Ken was getting at, too. <br /><br />How do we get to a place where that's what drives the discussion? Where those who engage in the practice and teach the curriculum can be a significant part of the discussion and decision-making?<br /><br />@Rebel Speducator - Thanks for reading & commenting. I'm looking forward to reading your blog.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-41744132791450797052012-01-01T07:50:04.427-05:002012-01-01T07:50:04.427-05:00@Stuart - While I am generally a skeptical optimis...@Stuart - While I am generally a skeptical optimist, I do have my cynical moments, but the one that you are pointing to is not really one of them.<br /><br />You have a point that the philanthropists in this aren't making money; indeed, they are losing money. That's not what I'm talking about there. I'm saying that a whole industry has been created around education reform (and not just for choice-related endeavors--that's not all there is to talk about) funded by public dollars and by private/philanthropic dollars. I question the utility and helpfulness (towards the endeavor of improving teaching and learning)of the positions and products being created by these reform efforts, but I do not for the most part question the sincerity of the people doing the jobs and creating the products. I assume and accept most of them are trying to help. And because they think they are helping and because they think of themselves as social entrepreneurs if they make a comfortable or even highly comfortable living in the process then to them, so be it. Some other people do not concede that. They think these people are only trying to take money from one group/system and distribute it to another almost solely in the interest of making a buck. *That*, I think, is cynical and *that* was what I was addressing in that thought. Because unless I have evidence to the contrary, I personally don't assume that. <br /><br />Now Stuart, I respect your opinion. Even better where I come from, I am curious about it and want to learn more about how you formed it. I would hope you are here for the same reason. I can see can from the post that the thought you quoted from was not very well presented or organized and it may even be faulty. But you took what I said, took out some words, added some others, and changed its context. In light of a query or challenge, I am perfectly happy to defend, explain, affirm, reconsider, or take back things I *actually* said in the context in which I *actually* said them. But I have little patience for doing so about things I didn't actually say in ways that I didn't actually say them. If you're going to knowingly engage in such tactics, I will probably stop responding as to me they are sign of at worst, arguing in bad faith and at best, arguing for sport. I am interested in neither.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-6665774920560488602011-12-31T23:31:04.144-05:002011-12-31T23:31:04.144-05:00I'm trying to report what I have seen over the...I'm trying to report what I have seen over the past few years as I attempted to switch from being a journalist to a special educator. But I cannot stop being a journalist when I witness first-hand what is going on inside our schools. Do you mind checking out my blog at www.forgetthelabel.com <br />I want to make sure no one forgets all the children in our schools who have a special education label, whether they actually have a disability or not.Children have this tendency to "come down with" disabilities when they reach the grade level in which high-stakes testing begins.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09641440117634365012noreply@blogger.com