tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post2065489315791965980..comments2023-04-24T23:09:57.655-04:00Comments on All Things Education: Teach For America: From Service Group to IndustryUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-17670746100340641702013-06-26T18:51:02.034-04:002013-06-26T18:51:02.034-04:00@Anonymous - I didn't know anyone was still re...@Anonymous - I didn't know anyone was still reading this! Thanks so much for the feedback. I actually did talk about what can happen when they TFAers get into leadership positions but perhaps not as much as could have. See here:<br /><br />"Wendy Kopp and other TFA leaders counter that attrition and cost are not issues since the ultimate purpose of TFA is not to produce career teachers but to produce education professionals and philanthropists to fight educational inequity. I agree it’s beneficial for students of education policy to understand the realities of the public school classroom, but I don’t think it should be at the expense of knowledgeable teachers for our students. Many TFA alumni leave the classroom and enter into an echo chamber where the ideologies and industries of TFA, TFA alums, and like-minded individuals and organizations are promoted. This causes many of them to view education policy through a narrow lens and fail to recognize what causes the inequities in the first place: unequal distribution of resources, income inequality, and poverty. Furthermore, unlike jobs in teaching, many of the education sector jobs Kopp speaks of are very lucrative, for example being a charter school administrator in New York City, a superintendent in a mayoral takeover system, or a TFA executive, many of whom make $200,000 to $300,000 per year. One study even disputed the claim that TFA alums become civically engaged at relatively higher rates."<br /><br />Indeed, New Orleans could be a study of a TFA-dom. <br /><br />My latest problem with TFA is how much they charge underfunded and beleaguered school districts to employ corps members. The organization is just oozing with money. They could afford to put their teacher-recruits through a year of training and internship *and* not charge districts to employ them.<br />Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-47743842968108937112013-06-25T14:10:53.589-04:002013-06-25T14:10:53.589-04:00This is one of the best critiques/analyses I'v...This is one of the best critiques/analyses I've seen on the subject. You get right to the heart of the debate. I never feel bad about critiqing TfA or its corps members. I'm sure as individuals in another setting they are fine, but my dealings with them as teacher-wanna-bes and education leaders-by-gang rule have reconfirmed my belief that their enthusiasm to boost their resumes trumps their mediocre teaching impact in the classroom. <br /><br />One point you missed - once they get into leadership positions, they only hire their own and push out anyone who questions or dissents. Firmly ensconced, with only fellow TfAers to tell each other how wonderful and relevant they are, they fail to even consider that there is another way. They control the data that-"surprise"-validates their existence and methods; they control the politicians who take campaign contributions from the organization funneled through PACs; and they control the media that refuses to look objectively at what is going on in this education "reform" venture. <br /><br />If you don't believe it, look no further that Louisiana where they have completely taken over education - State Supt. of Education: TfA alum; the DOE: controlled by TfA alums at all top positions; the Governor: TfA alum is the education policy person; State Board of Education: two TfA alums as Executive Directors, a TfA alum member on the Board (who is allowed to vote on the TfA contract that directs money to her own TfA branch and the big organization), AND many board members bought and paid for by those funneled contributions. They swooped in after Katrina, and for a state reeling from the disaster, they were methodical in their efforts to control every aspect of education. The mainstream media rarely mentions the subject although bloggers are now starting to beat the drums.<br /><br />For anyone who feels the need to justify their existence, you'll be surprised when they will come for your state, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-8314056177044278842013-04-07T19:17:22.253-04:002013-04-07T19:17:22.253-04:00People need to do the work of becoming a teacher b...People need to do the work of becoming a teacher by going through traditional teacher training instead of denigrating the profession by thinking because they think they are academically "smart," they can just waltz into a classroom and do the job. They can't.<br /><br />TFA needs to be outlawed, period. Teaching is a profession, not some little hobby for trust fund brats to occupy themselves before they find a "real" job. There is NO need for TFA--there is NO teacher shortage anywhere in the United States that justifies lowering standards for teachers. It is also racist because TFA specifically targets low-income schools, not the wealthy schools. It has this notion that kids from lower-income schools don't need the best teachers, just any warm body will do, when it is the veteran teachers these kids desperately need.<br /><br />Read Lois Weiner's website, please. She knows of what she speaks.OTE adminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09259422705314063194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-89072597348270146192012-02-14T22:50:05.646-05:002012-02-14T22:50:05.646-05:00@BB - I'm very glad to have your comment here....@BB - I'm very glad to have your comment here. It's important to keep in mind non-traditional TFA applicants.<br /><br />As I said in the third to last paragraph, the kind of experience you had *before* applying to TFA is exactly the kind I wish they looked for in or required first from all of their corps members.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-30497039161462492522012-02-14T22:37:57.661-05:002012-02-14T22:37:57.661-05:00I realize that this piece was posted quite a while...I realize that this piece was posted quite a while ago but I still felt the need to respond. I really enjoyed your well written and thought provoking article on TFA but as an incoming 2012 TFA Corps Member wanted to at least reply. I, too, have done a lot of research on Teach for America as an organization and the benefit or detriment that it may cause to the low-income students it serves. <br /><br />A little about my background: I grew up in a single parent household, went to Head Start, and eventually was lucky enough to attend a top tier University. I graduated with Honors with a degree in Business (mostly because of my background and wanting to be financially stable). I worked in finance for 3 years or so but was really unhappy with my career choice and kept feeling drawn to the field of education. So...I took a huge pay cut, taught school abroad and eventually got a job as an Educational Assistant at an Elementary School in the US (which I absolutely love). I was recently accepted to Teach for America and feel very lucky that I am getting a second chance on a career that excites me and all of the resources that will become available to me as a TFA Corps Member. I just felt like giving a voice to those of us who truly want to teach and who couldn't otherwise afford a Graduate degree in Education. Not all of us are elitist, college seniors who merely hope to climb the corporate ladder and think TFA is a good starting point.<br /><br />BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-66713607501228984722012-01-31T21:22:42.772-05:002012-01-31T21:22:42.772-05:00In ancient history (2008), when I was young and st...In ancient history (2008), when I was young and stupid, I was accepted to join TFA's ranks and moved to Houston for Institute. I left after 3 weeks appalled by the blatant conflation of training and indoctrination. Was I supposed to teach or preach? I packed my bags and returned home to Missouri to earn a master's in education. Despite initial feelings of guilt and shame for "giving up" on all those kids who needed a teacher, I decided I cared too much about my future students to burden them with my lack of preparation. Four years older and wiser, I know now that it was the best decision I ever made. TFA is a scam whose motives I don't yet understand, but I am thankful for my experience and relieved I so narrowly averted that professional catastrophe.<br /><br />Your article is thoughtful and well-researched. It confirms my suspicions of TFA's self-interested and predatory practices, but, more importantly, it affirms the good intentions of all the young recruits who do sign on to make a difference. TFA has it partially correct: we need to attract smart, talented people to teaching. But, as you point out, talent is no substitute for experience.@KellyDillon1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-14278550729657088922011-06-08T09:23:50.564-04:002011-06-08T09:23:50.564-04:00Hi rachel
Sorry so long to reply, but been away f...Hi rachel<br /><br />Sorry so long to reply, but been away from the toobz for a few days. I am reluctant to post an email publicly because of the spambots. <br /><br />Still loving your work, and right behind you on the Matt Y dustup. Remember, this is a man who fully supported the invasion of Iraq. He has his areas of strength, but it appears education and foreign policy are not among them.robonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-9203068091662435532011-06-05T22:20:40.478-04:002011-06-05T22:20:40.478-04:00Rachel,
As others have said, I deeply appreciate y...Rachel,<br />As others have said, I deeply appreciate your taking the time and care to put such articulate words on these and other issues in education. I sometimes feel I am constantly working with the immediate crisis or challenge and never taking the time to step back and communicate the larger and underlying assumptions or theories of change that are operating. It really is an enormous contribution and gift to all of us. Thank youCathy Reillynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-84712033956581999482011-06-05T12:35:46.849-04:002011-06-05T12:35:46.849-04:00This is important information for people outside o...This is important information for people outside of education to know. Thanks for posting it. Still, we need to look beyond idealistic motives of individuals, to the way TFA fits with economic and political policy being enacted (throughout the world. TFA is part of a project to deprofessionalize teaching as an occupation, by replacing career teachers, who are paid for their experience and education, with new recruits, who cost less. Why is this being done? My website takes a look at research that explains this, but the short story is that work no longer requires much education, so education is being transformed so that most workers will receive only a minimal education, which can be provided by teachers with not much education (or experience) themselves. They need only be able to teach to the test.Lois Weinerhttp://www.lloisweiner.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-87135439115080624332011-06-02T23:42:34.710-04:002011-06-02T23:42:34.710-04:00@Rachel
Your blog is bookmarked and I look forwar...@Rachel <br />Your blog is bookmarked and I look forward to continuing to learn from your posts. <br /><br />@Nancy<br />Thank you for the link. Very interesting. Glad there was at least some long-term followup on TFA. I really wish that was built into new programs at the front end, something I started thinking about after learning that DARE was just about useless in keeping kids away from drugs.amygdalanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-3049658287633433782011-06-02T15:27:09.429-04:002011-06-02T15:27:09.429-04:00Rachel, another fine, thought-provoking post.
I w...Rachel, another fine, thought-provoking post.<br /><br />I was trying to find an off-post way of asking this, but can't find an email addy. Do you or any of your fine commenters have any experience with the International Baccelaureate program? We are planning to place our kids there this fall and wonder if any of the ed specialists here have any knowledge about the program. Sorry to go off topic....robonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-24415432971604702842011-06-02T12:28:25.827-04:002011-06-02T12:28:25.827-04:00Nothing useful to add, I just wanted to say that i...Nothing useful to add, I just wanted to say that i'm really incredibly impressed. And also grateful for the thought and work you're putting into this.cynthia henebryhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/cynthiahenebrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-25852208169149566842011-06-02T10:43:34.926-04:002011-06-02T10:43:34.926-04:00Ooops. Of course, the code thought that the code w...Ooops. Of course, the code thought that the code was a link itself.<br /><br />Here's the code (just add a "<" at the beginning and a ">" at the end)<br />a href="http://link address">link text</aRachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-7245239928910098022011-06-02T10:40:16.339-04:002011-06-02T10:40:16.339-04:00Thanks for the link, Nancy. Perfectly relevant.
H...Thanks for the link, Nancy. Perfectly relevant.<br /><br />Hey all readers & commenters, I finally figured out (well, someone told me) how to code in links. It's:<br /><a href="http://address" rel="nofollow">link </a><br /><br />So here's Nancy's <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/education/04teach.html" rel="nofollow">NYT link</a><br /><br />Yay, it worked!Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-37807982221857521332011-06-02T09:56:59.608-04:002011-06-02T09:56:59.608-04:00Interesting study that informs your question on th...Interesting study that informs your question on the civic-mindedness of TFA alums:<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/education/04teach.htmlNancy Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00047575960944913289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-41419253957104013392011-06-02T09:03:03.113-04:002011-06-02T09:03:03.113-04:00@SWNC: Thanks for stopping by & for another ex...@SWNC: Thanks for stopping by & for another excellent comment. I strongly encourage you to comment here in the future!<br /><br />@Sarah: I so appreciate hearing from you. I hope to check out your book. I actually see a fair number of pieces by former & current TFAers that are critical, but then again I read a lot of independent media. <br /><br />@amygdala: Thanks also for stopping by! You may be interested to read <a href="http://allthingsedu.blogspot.com/search/label/Wesleyan" rel="nofollow">my series of posts</a> on admissions policies at elite colleges. Stay tuned because I'm going to add another couple of posts to that series in the next day or two. <br /><br />It's hard to say how many TFA alum go into public service--I guess because it depends on how one defines "public service." For example I don't think lobbying for TFA, DFER, or Students First is public service. I think working for Head Start or for the program that Mary Ellen Isaacs cites above is public service. <br /><br />At least part of my skepticism is of all of the education jobs and organizations that are created & staffed by TFA alums after their service. If teachers are the largest in-school factor for student success, what good does it do students to have all of these people working in education, for example as consultants, but outside of the classroom (especially when these consultants classroom and in-school experience is so limited)? Are they really helping to improve equity and the quality of public education? (I haven't seen any evidence of this.) Or are they a self-perpetuating industry? <br /><br />I have read about the data you cite in your last paragraph. In fact, the review of TFA literature I drew upon to write this piece cited such a study of teachers. From the post: "One study cited in the review found that teachers are more likely to stay employed in schools that are close to where they attended school. I'd be curious to hear if there are more such studies and what their findings have been.<br /><br />Thanks again for the comment. I really value these interactions.Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-28816324212228360522011-06-01T23:06:46.399-04:002011-06-01T23:06:46.399-04:00I'm another of TNC's horde, here because C...I'm another of TNC's horde, here because Cedar linked this entry over there. Thank you very much for your thoughtful analysis. I have seen TFA alumni from another perspective, as a former professional school admissions committee member. <br /><br />Something that comes up a lot is how to compare the applicant who spent one summer volunteering in Guatemala and the next in an unpaid public policy internship to the one who was the first in his family to get to college, was paying for it solo, and thus worked construction every summer because it was the best-paying job he could find. It can indeed be a luxury to have a file rich with the kinds of extracurrics that admissions committees tend to love. On the other hand, holding someone's privilege against him or her isn't fair, either.<br /><br />It is thus interesting to read your concerns about the program as a sort of conscience-salving stepping stone. As I mentioned to Cedar on TNC's blog, I had no idea TFA had become a way of displacing experienced teachers. Even if most TFA graduates didn't wind up in education, if they landed in reasonable numbers in some sort of public service, it could still be money well spent. But displacing fully trained teachers is some kind of crazy mission creep.<br /><br />There are data from other professions that students who come from disadvantaged areas return in larger-than-chance numbers when they finish their training. I wonder if that has been examined in education. If it holds up there, too, then it has obvious policy implications for how to get more fully trained teachers into rural and inner city schools.<br /><br />Again, many thanks for this interesting post.amygdalanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-21921768025987469202011-06-01T18:51:31.136-04:002011-06-01T18:51:31.136-04:00@Sarah. The mainstream media is indeed one of the ...@Sarah. The mainstream media is indeed one of the problems. Somehow TFA has become a media darling, as have Arne Duncan, and Michelle Rhee. I too have written pieces that have been ignored. Join us in July to raise our voices loud enough for even the deaf media to hear.David Greenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09667231702023030531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-54256495656804992772011-06-01T14:54:16.422-04:002011-06-01T14:54:16.422-04:00I think it is fascinating that the mainstream medi...I think it is fascinating that the mainstream media rarely publishes critiques of TFA. I am a TFA alum. I wrote a book that is critical of the program (Taught by America: A Story of Struggle and Hope in Compton--Beacon Press), and I have submitted op/ed after op/ed critiquing how TFA functions as resume fodder, as a way for people to get into a good graduate school or to defer working for an investment bank for two years. I also point out how it deprofessionalizes teaching. Can you imagine a similar program for doctors? Dentists? Plumbers? The violent effects of unprepared teachers may be slower than the effects of an unprepared doctor, but they are just as damaging. Not one of my opinion pieces has been published, even though the same papers publish op/ed pieces talking about how great TFA is all the time. Fascinating that it is such a media darling. I wonder why that is. Raises more questions about which groups benefit from TFA. Thank you for your post!Sarah Sentilleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04047780476180370224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-75116998299786287382011-06-01T13:45:02.475-04:002011-06-01T13:45:02.475-04:00@Cedar's post raises (again?) a critical point...@Cedar's post raises (again?) a critical point that a lot of people miss in their rush to defend TFA from people like Rachel or Diane Ravitch.<br /><br />Very few defenders of public education would oppose bringing more quality teachers into public schools, however they may come. If TFA recruits some bright, motivated kids who think they may be interested in teaching, and go on to find out that they are good at it and want to pursue a teaching career, then that's fantastic. Heck, if TFA provides a talented recruit who can fill a staffing gap in a particular school for several years and does so with high-quality teaching, then I'd argue that's also a net positive for TFA.<br /><br />But as Cedar points out, where we all have problems with TFA is once "reformers" start arguing that any TFA grad is superior to any experienced teacher ... which is what seems to happen when regular teachers are replaced by TFA grads. And like any blanket statement, that one is not going to be true. *Some* TFA grads are undoubtedly as good or better than *some* experienced teachers (as well as vice versa). TFA should therefore select trainees who really want to teach, and give them support and further training if they excel at the job. <br /><br />But TFA should *not* be lobbying for their grads to be staffing every classroom in America, replacing established teachers. That might help their program grow, but it won't help schools.taylor16noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-12899524036959798092011-06-01T11:58:37.365-04:002011-06-01T11:58:37.365-04:00The unfortunate thing about these comment boxes is...The unfortunate thing about these comment boxes is that they are too short for full replies. That being said, I've been called worse than an outlier, thanks. I believe that there are a lot more like me out there who can perhaps influence some TFAmericans to "see the light" other than Kopp's rather blinding one.<br /><br />I agree that TFA must change. It must follow all of the wise suggestions from all of you. Rachel's idea. Extend TFA time to 3 or 4 years. Have more TFAmericans work with qualified teacher trainers through graduate schools and work with good mentors in the system. There are so many.<br /><br /> How can we accomplish that? Protests? Join SOS March and Call to action in Washington in late July. Follow and spread Diane Ravitch's words. Get more media hype to fight back against theirs. Get universities with ed. undergrad and grad programs to do more than watch from the sidelines. Finally, we can work from within. Change TFA froth inside, one TFAmerican at a time. Turn the warriors into Trojan Horses. <br /><br />As I said earlier there isn't much space here. If you care to, please read 2 of my guest blogs on Anthony Cody's "Living In Dialogue' Blog in Education Week-Teacher...<br /><br />http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2011/03/david_greene_some_advice_for_w.html<br /><br />http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2011/02/bilby_greene_tough_lessons_fro.htmlDavid Greenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09667231702023030531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-8374177519446411342011-06-01T09:56:29.886-04:002011-06-01T09:56:29.886-04:00Sam Chaltain, I really liked your post. You highli...Sam Chaltain, I really liked your post. You highlight something crucial, and that TFA and other education reformers often gets overlook, which is the importance of having teachers be part of the community. My husband teaches elementary school. He knows his students’ neighborhoods. We see his students at the grocery store and the park. He’s taught their siblings and cousins. We patronize the businesses of his student’s parents. None of that is essential to being a good teacher—but it helps establish a trust and connection with students and their families. (And he’s not half as connected as many veteran teachers. One day, he was warning a substitute—herself a retired teacher—about a particularly rambunctious student. Her response, “I taught [Student]’s mama. I go to church with his grandma. He will not be giving me any problems today.”) Schools need a critical mass of teachers with those kind of community ties.SWNCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-10038938203111538152011-06-01T09:24:39.192-04:002011-06-01T09:24:39.192-04:00Hi, Rachel! I'm glad you re-posted that--I was...Hi, Rachel! I'm glad you re-posted that--I was actually coming over to do the same thing. <br /><br />I know that many individual TFA teachers do a great job and that their students are well-served by them. However, the idea that throwing graduates from elite universities into the breach will fix public education is wrong. It's unfair to public school students; it's unfair to public school systems; and it places a ridiculously high burden on TFA corps members.SWNCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-65642918776221856592011-06-01T08:30:53.379-04:002011-06-01T08:30:53.379-04:00As @taylor16 mentioned (& so very nice to have...As @taylor16 mentioned (& so very nice to have you here, taylor 16--thank you for commenting!) my husband, a regular commenter at TNC's blog, shared a link to this piece on the open thread there. Another regular commenter, SWNC, left a terrific comment. I hope she doesn't mind that I'm sharing it here:<br /><br />"Like taylor16, I also have mixed feelings about TFA. On the one hand, I'm all in favor of getting intelligent, enthusiastic teachers into the classroom. On the other hand, as your wife writes, it seems to function more for the benefit of TFA corps members than the students they are supposed to be serving. I also have issues with the fact that a stockbroker's son who graduates from Duke and teaches in Hazard County for a couple of years gets praise, Americorps funding to repay student loans, and a shiny gold star on his resume, while a dental hygienist's daughter who graduates from Eastern Kentucky University and teaches in Hazard County for 20 years isn't treated the same way.<br /><br />Yeah, it's sort of like if you come from a well-off background or go to a more elite school, you're making some kind of noble sacrifice to be a teacher, even if it's just for a few years. Whereas (especially if you're a woman) if you're from a less affluent background and go to a middle-tier state university, nobody thinks they need to give you a shiny prize for going into a pink-collar, low-prestige profession. Makes me twitchy. This attitude is not specific to Teach For America, and I didn't mean to imply that it is."Rachel Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06844728669493681943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2836584065506164163.post-72478376307475044702011-06-01T00:06:59.804-04:002011-06-01T00:06:59.804-04:00@taylor16
We're all given pause now that TFA s...@taylor16<br />We're all given pause now that TFA seems to have alums like Michelle Rhee are beating the union busting drum and TFA teachers seem to be used as warriors in the struggle to bust the unions. In other words, some of that extra money you're paying TFA teachers pays off pretty quickly if you're replacing a tenured malcontent or putting a teacher in special ed, an area hard to staff that saves money for each student you don't have to outsource in Washington, DC.Jasoneducatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01741828726225647577noreply@blogger.com